AT: Did you enjoy working here or was it just to earn?

AB: I enjoyed it because it’s still directing, instead of working in a call center. This is not the States that you can be a Pizza Hut [cook] and end up being Billy Bob Thornton. Or a truck driver and end up being James Cameron. If Brad Pitt could be a mascot of Pollo Loco, and he’s Brad Pitt now, well this is my Pollo Loco job. This is my Pizza Hut job; at least it’s still directing.

AT: Did you learn anything here?

AB: A lot, man, I can never deny that. The quickness, the pressure, the pipeline, pacing. This used to be the number one network, and it still the largest network here in the Philippines. All the training that you can get, may it be technical, the strength of character, when your co-workers are treating you badly, you’ll learn everything, even corruption. But, you need to apply the corruption, the politics. I used to be quiet before man, the type that would stay on the sidelines. But you can’t do that if you’re the director.

AT: You have to kind of be in command.

AB: That kind of command is the hardest thing to learn because you can’t be taught that. You just have to acquire it, all of a sudden. When I was working as an AD, they would be disrespecting me, even the utility guys. Utility is the one who fixes the coffee, the food, [even] they’d be disrespectful. That’s the culture here: if you’re new, they roast you; they give you a hard time. As time passes, you’ll learn. How you can order someone around without looking bigheaded. I learned a lot, the enormity of what’s placed on your shoulders. When you’re on the set, there’s a crane there, there’s all these people; you’re commanding about 60 people or more. For a novice, you’ll really be shaking [in your shoes]. Besides the deadline you have to meet, you have to be quick. If you’re quick, you’re good--that’s the equation here. And if it rates well.

AT: What you said about control on the set, did you not feel that when making your shorts?

AB: When I was making my shorts, I had that, man. I believe and many have said I have a strong personality, I have command. Though I don’t know how to make people move. It’s different from just knowing how to do what you do; let’s say you’re good at what you do compared to those who are around you and just follow you. It used to be that before I passed it on to someone, I would do everything myself. That’s the tendency of the indie filmmaker, to do it all. I’ve learned that it can’t be like that here in the network, in the mainstream. There’s a breaking point to your energy, there’s a breaking point to your patience. [The thing is to learn] how they’ll obey you, without getting surly, without getting mad at you; it’s a Filipino thing.

AT: You had that when you were making this film?

AB: I think so. But more than that, I found the people I am supposed to be with. People who give me support and believe in what I believe in, who turned out to be my friends. That’s why I told you that I was surprised that they were all there. I didn’t notice that the people I was hanging out with, my friends—I hate the word but—could be used, could be taken advantage of, could be utilized. I didn’t expect that. If you just met me today, I’m the type of person who you’d know right away likes making films, because that’s all I talk about. Arnel Ignacio, for instance, said I’m autistic because every time I see him, “Film, man.” This guy only talks about film. I’m kind of like that, man. When you talk to me, you might mistake me for someone bigheaded; who is this person who talks like this. The gauge of intelligence isn’t in what you say or who’s saying it or even in who has the right to say things like that. I think that the reason why a lot of people join me in my work, what I sell to them is more than anything else, isn’t money because there’s no money there; it’s not camaraderie. What I know I’m selling is dreams, man. Dreams. To make something. I respect those people around me because I’ve seen that they’re artists themselves. The one who did the titles is Ivan Despi, a graphic artist. What he really wants to do is work on comic books. Cedric Hornedo, who’s my friend is also a painter. He’s the CG director, animation director here in ABS. That’s not all they want to do. They also want to do something that they could be proud of and call their own. And there are a lot, Shugo, everybody. All of them have entered the mainstream already. The difference with [these guys and other people who do] indie is that we’ve all done mainstream [work]. We’re done. We’ve penetrated that. From an amateur turned professional, you penetrated ABS-CBN, that’s okay. So what else? Is that the end-all, be-all? It’s not. So you want to do something. You only pass through this. So the unifying factor is that all of us want to do something else. All of us are exhausted. It’s like that, but we need to live.

AT: What’s your deal with Unitel? You say they’re going to distribute it in the theaters locally?

AB: No. This is what happened. I approached Tony [Gloria] and we watched the film. They liked it. The deal is 70-30, they don’t give us any money. We didn’t have any money yet. The deal is whatever they earn, if they manage to sell it abroad for co-distribution or show it abroad, we get the 70%, they get the 30% minus the expenses.

AT: Posters…

AB: Yeah, promotional tools, shipping, that sort of thing. As for the DVD rights, that’s theirs as well. 70-30, no cash out. The film is theirs for seven years; they’ll be the sole distributor.

AT: What parts did Unitel cut out? Erwin [2] mentioned that there were some cuts.

AB: What you saw is the director’s cut. When we submitted the film to Unitel, I hadn’t gone to the MTRCB yet. I didn’t have a screening yet. They suggested, over the phone, Ting Nebrida [of Unitel] suggested lessening the conversation, the first part, Ketchup’s establishing scene. Instead of four women being talked about, I trimmed it down to two. I took out the adlibbed parts, but I kept the ones in the script. It’s still seamless, you won’t notice that there was anything taken out or not. But the toughness of the person was lessened, of Pogi. So we agreed. They said it might be too trying for the audience. They said it dragged on too long, that people won’t be able to watch a Filipino film that’s full of cursing from the start. To fill it with cursing like that right at the start, no one is that brave. Although they really liked it, Ting said it might not be the same in other countries. What I showed MTRCB was my cut. If it goes through, if it’s approved, at least it’s my original cut. They liked it; the panelist even congratulated me, “When are you making the next one?” It’s weird, man. Making a film should be filled with tension, but it was the [rating of the] MTRCB that made me nervous. I thought they would give it a X –rating. They understood that I didn’t put anything exploitative. Their review was, R-18, “It has sodomy, foul language but it deserves public exhibition because it deals with the seamy side of society…”, something like that. Then I was congratulated by the reviewers, three of them. Maybe I was also lucky with the reviewers. Hernando, Mario Hernando. Lanot, the wife of Pete Lacaba. And Bengzon. Then they congratulated me, the film was good, when were we making the next one. They said the scripting is tight.

AT: That was all they cut, Unitel, just opening bits of dialogue? Nothing else?

AB: That’s it. Nothing else. That’s also why I agreed to it. I thought they would ask me to cut out the part with sodomy. I figured, if I compromised that, fuck it, I hadn’t shown it to the MTRCB and I was already being screened, but it wasn’t that. They reasoned that it was too long, the audience might get bored. The term they used was ‘too trying for the audience’, which I didn’t understand. When Tito Velasco and I had a meeting, it ended with me bringing my master or digi-betacam to transfer. He was surprised because he thought that what was passed to the MTRCB was their cut, what they suggested. What I gave them is the director’s cut, they thought that their cut was the one to be screened in Glorietta. When I had the premiere, the audience kept laughing, they were reacting to the opening part. I call that the Quentin Tarantino sequence, a long sequence where the characters talk nonsense. What’s being established is the psyche of the characters.

AT: When I first watched it, it was with my friend, well, two friends. One of them is a filmmaker, John Torres, the other is Jean Tan, a graphic designer. She was laughing and laughing during the opening sequence. And during the dialogue between Ketchup and Taba [in the parlor], she was laughing.

AB: Because it’s funny. I talk like that. When you’re all guys, all of you are friends, you’re really crazy. You’re only different when you’re with other people. I told Ketchup that it’s only a script, it’s just a guide. I make it a point that they’re acquainted with the character, that they know who you are. Beyond the script, you should know what the character eats, what he wears, what he smells like, what perfume he uses. They should know so that whatever comes out of your mouth, in your dialogue or whatever actions you do goes with the character you’re playing.

When we were shooting that opening scene with all the cursing, I broke into a cold sweat, there were so many people watching. I don’t know why Pinoys are conscious with cursing when we hear that everyday in Hollywood movies. It’s nice to hear when it’s in English. But if it’s in Tagalog...

AT: Like what Johnny Delgado's character said in La Visa Loca… [voice gets softer]

AB: Yes, I’ve been saying that for a long time. Why is it offensive when you say vagina. Look, you’re even lowering your voice. Maybe that’s how our culture is—conservative. When I was shooting that, I was breaking out in a cold sweat, fuck it, there are kids watching. But that’s what came out, I can’t do anything. If I was filtering the material as early as that point, I would be fooling myself. Why else did I go independent? As for the script—the stabbing, the part of Kuya Bodjie, the blowjob scene with on the bed, what was in Shugo’s script was OS—off-screen. That means you only hear it. But when I was there, it wasn’t like that; I felt it had to be seen. For the blowjob, my original design for that was for only the door to be seen. You [only] hear the sounds but you know that’s what’s happening. A lot of people were surprised why the callboy was the one doing the blowjob when it was supposed to be the gay one. That’s what you think, that’s why you’re renting the service. That’s why you’re renting, [for the other person] to do you.

AT: This is the heavy question. While it’s still recording, [I’ll ask about the] film: what are you saying with it? What is it that you want to say?

AB: Wake up. Actually, that’s the easiest thing to answer because I know that already. Wake up, man. When I told Shugo the title itself, [he said] it seemed quite lengthy. I said no, that’s really it. Sa Aking Pagkakagising Mula Sa Kamulatan (“My Awakening From Consciousness”) is an oxymoron. My awakening from consciousness, nobody can be awakened from consciousness because you’re already conscious and that’s how we are, what we are here in the Philippines. I’m speaking for myself as a Filipino, we see things, we see all these things and we don’t care and we don’t even recognize it, because you’re used to it. So wake up. It presented these characters, this life, they’re there, they know their situation but cannot see it, cannot realize it. Filipinos are passive, they’re very passive; the character of Rey comprises, generalizes the character of Filipinos that explodes in the lives of these guys. It’s the character of Filipinos who hang out all the time. I can bet you that if we go around right now, there are people drinking at the store, playing basketball, and every street you visit will have a court, a store. Filipino culture.

AT: But then in the film, is there a character that wakes up? Is it Carlo Aquino’s character? Is what he did the right thing?

AB: No, I’m not saying he did the right thing. It’s just a mirror, you just reflect what really happens. That’s why it’s ‘Sa Aking’, The ‘my’, the first person, is important to me because every time you say or you read the title, you’re saying it to yourself. My awakening from consciousness—‘sa aking pagkakagising’. I could have entitled it ‘Pagkakagising Mula sa Kamulatan’ but ‘Sa Aking’ is very important. Because when you say, ‘Sa aking pagkakagising mula sa kamulatan’, it might make you think, you might wake up and realize things.

AT: ‘Cause that’s what you’re intending to with the film—for the audience? Not what any of the characters do?

AB: For the audience. The reason why you liked the film is because you saw yourself in it, in one or several of the characters. That’s what I want to say: this is enough; we have to wake up; we’ve been like this for so long; film is dead. It’s still the same; there was EDSA Dos, there was even EDSA Tres; we’re still the same. Wake up. What happens is a vicious cycle.

AT: For me, it’s an angry film, talks about violence but I actually thought that at the end of it, the characters are a lot more sad than anything else.

AB: I don’t even know why it’s violent. Is it violent?

AT: Definitely, there’s violence in the film. When they start to beat up Rey and then when Pogi kicks him and tells the other people, this feels good right, it’s actually sad.

AB: It’s supposed to be sad. Look at it this way, Alexis, the effect of what happened in the basketball court [the brawl at the start of the film] should be far more enormous, because it was more violent. But what I did was I tried to make that simple beating up of Rey heavier. The one in the basketball court is more of a riot, but the feel of violence is greater when one person was being beaten up.

AT: A lot of the other scenes, the violence, at least for the main characters, a lot of it is very reactive. When Cholo and all of them start attacking Rey, when the dad kills the nephew, a lot of it is reactive. Except for the basketball scene.

AB: But if you think about it, that should be more violent since a lot more happened. I tried to treat it so that it would be inferior, you wouldn’t notice it much compared to a stabbing or beating. What’s the question again?

AT: Sad part in the violence.

AB: You’re right, it’s supposed to be sad.

AT: For me that was the undertone of the film.

AB: Like in Taxi Driver, Scorsese said in his biography, he tried to watch one of the screenings in the theaters and he was surprised that when De Niro took out his gun and began shooting, people were saying, “Bring it on!” He was surprised because it wasn’t supposed [to elicit] that kind of reaction. His ambition was for you to be struck by what happens.

AT: How do you feel about that? Do you think he didn’t succeed?

AB: It depends on the times. Then, it succeeded. That’s my favourite film in the whole world.

AT: How did you react to that scene?

AB: I was quiet. What I felt wasn’t the ‘bring it on’ type.

AT: Because for me, it was also like that—quiet. But how do you reconcile that when half the audience has a very, very different reaction and half of them completely get mixed by the message.

AB: Well, even Woody Allen didn’t like 2001: A Space Odyssey of Stanley Kubrick until 2 years later, until he viewed the film the second time. Different times probably. There are some films wherein the reaction of the audience changes depending on what the trend or the norm is. I don’t know what the reaction is, although most of what I’ve heard is sadness. It’s hard to comment on the reactions of people, I can’t judge that.

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