AT: How do you feel, that there was an old couple that walked out [at the premiere of the film at the NCCA]? That’s the news I heard.

AB: I was glad. Truth is I’m glad. I’d be scared if everyone I spoke to like the film. That means I did something wrong. There’s something wrong if everyone, if every single person liked it. That’s scary. That means you didn’t do anything. For those two people to walk out on the film, that means they were affected, you’ve gotten to them. On that alone, you’ve gotten to them. For those people who were angered by the film, I got to them, they reacted to it. But if everyone I see liked the film, didn’t have an opinion…When you step out of mostly Hollywood films, it’s “That was good, come on let’s eat”. Don’t you have that? It’s like that Will Smith movie I saw, they call it visual masturbation. When you’re in the theater, it feels good. When you step out afterwards, “Come one, let’s eat”, you just don’t talk about it. But for those people who walked out, that means, they’ll tell other people about it. Even if it’s not for them, they’re a means to reaching other people.

AT: There’s a Malaysian director I spoke to recently, U-Wei Bin Hajisaari, and we were talking about the film of another Malaysian director, Ho Yuhang’s Sanctuary, on DV also, made with a really low budget. I like it; it’s a very good film. We were talking about it and U-Wei said he liked it, and that Yuhang’s a very good filmmaker, [he said] "But in the film [Sanctuary], all these negative things happen to the characters, one after the other. And then the film ends, that’s it. I think it’s a very good film, but when you make a film, you have to have hope, there has to be some kind of light."

AB: If you’re asking me, what the light there is, it’s the awakening. Though it’s realistic, I still ended the film in a dream, in what one dreams of. For me man, I believe that for people to accomplish something, for them to really do it, he should think that if he so much as makes a mistake, he’s going to die. The exchange of failure for the things we do is death. If you’re going to do something, you have to give everything; you have to give your life. If you make a mistake, you’ll die. The film is like that. One more thing, I don’t know if you got this. The ones who are drinking, they don’t want to drink anymore, right. This is enough; they didn’t want to drink anymore. They were the ones who were awake. But when Rey wakes up, his companions were the one knocked out. What happens to their lives the next day could have been another story. Maybe Pogi won’t look at women in the same way; maybe he’ll change. Maybe Jopet will have a different life the following day. Kahoy may go back [to snatching], but he’ll also be changed; he won’t want to drink anymore. When Rey wakes up, on the other hand, we don’t know what happened. What do you think; do you think he killed them?

AT: You cut and then you put the bloody table, so people assumed he killed them.

AB: But the bloody table is from a dream. Though for me, he really killed them. That’s the hope you’re talking about when you watch the film. You’ll acquire hope [in reflecting on the idea that] these people had no chance. You know they were never given a chance. When you watch it, maybe it will make you think. Maybe tomorrow, you won’t do that [type of thing] anymore. My aunt was asking me, about three years ago, what type of films I wanted to do, the ones with hope at the end [she asked]? I said I wanted to make films that were like Lino Brocka’s. Everyone’s voice is different. I don’t oppose films that are heartwarming, the ones with the happy endings, the ones with hope. That’s how they tell their stories; I cry at the end of these films myself. My style, as a storyteller, as a director, as a filmmaker, I show you what you should not do. This is what will happen; don’t do this. I don’t glorify violence, man. Have I glorified violence? No, I didn’t. There’s more violence in Bad Boys 2 or any other action flick in Hollywood. They go on a shooting spree, killing people off easily. In my film, there’s only a stabbing that you don’t even see. You know the part with sodomy isn’t even real.

AT: I agree also. I think that sometimes if you end it like that [bleak], it can be more thought-provoking for the viewer. Like in La Visa Loca [dir. Mark Meily], at the end it’s kind of neatly tied up and you don’t think about it as much anymore.

AB: Right, man. Because if there’s anything shown to you, ah ok, everything’s fine, everything’s good, so? Yeah, cinema is entertainment, but I don’t want to give them escapism. Fuck it, I will take your one and a half hour or more than two hours to influence you, to say something, that I can die with.

AT: So would you make a Star Cinema [3] film?

AB: Well, I liked Central Station. The quote-unquote Star Cinema film? I wouldn’t use that term. But using the director as smuggler, I can smuggle. But now that I’ve made this on my own, why would I sell out now? It’s nice to think about making that kind of film, but I don’t feel like doing that right now. You have to be true to yourself. I don’t know man; I would be making fools of the audience [through those films], that the poor really dress like that when they don’t. That that’s what really happens when they don’t. I’ve lived with sadness, with failure. Erwin asked me, how I came up with that kind of language, that dialogue. Shugo and I looked at each other. “Whose dialogue was that?”, Erwin asked. I talk like that. I may not be like that when I’m talking to you. I’m an educated person, even if I curse a lot. It’s hypocrisy when you say that children don’t hear cursing. I grew up with my grandmother who curses a lot. We grew up in a place where everyone curses. This violence, this cursing, it’s not new; you see it everyday; it’s in front of you though you don’t see it. It’s always been there; that’s what I’m trying to say. So if you love these people, for one and a half hour, you have to show them, with the use of this medium, whatever it is; may it be DVD, digital or film, that that’s reality.

AT: In terms of Philippine cinema, who are the ones you look up to?

AB: My favorite film in the Philippines is Scorpio Nights 1 of Peque Gallaga. That’s how I lived, man.. Life in Manila is like that. Of course, Lino Brocka. Peque Gallaga.

AT: What kind of influence, if any, did Maynila have on the end? [Maynila ends with a character being cornered, Sa Aking ends with a character rising to action.

AB: The end, it’s a homage to Maynila sa Kuko ng Liwanag. In Lino Brocka’s film, the last frame shows that the people are afraid. I said that in this one, they would fight back. In this one, it would be the reverse. But I only thought about that in the end.

AT: During the editing, you mean or during the shooting? Was it included already?

AB: It was included when we were shooting. But in the process of writing the script, it wasn’t included. The ending was supposed to be a dog running away. I didn’t include it anymore. That still wasn’t the ending. My ending was that it would fade in from black and the place would be empty; the people wouldn’t be there and there would be no traces of blood. The store would open; there would be shots of the MRT, of Manila. Then you would see the dog. The beginning was supposed to be Rey and the dog staring at each other before Rey gets beaten up. The dog wants to cross the street. The ending would be the dog crossing the street against the flow of the traffic. He’s crossing, the leftover meat dangling from his mouth.

AT: But you didn’t get to shoot it?

AB: Not anymore. I scrapped it also.

AT: Would you have wanted to shoot it on film?

AB: That’s our dream, man. Film is really my dream. Film, man.

AT: But this film, it’s a different medium.

AB: I don’t believe in that. I should have placed my speech on that CD [I gave you]. It says everything I think. May it be DV, digital, film, the content is what’s important. But if it’s on film, you can show it in the theaters, there’s a bigger chance that more people will see it. Film’s easy to transfer to telecine, it’s cheaper. But it’s more expensive to blow up DV. If you’re a storyteller, if you’re a filmmaker, you definitely want more people to see it.

AT: But then that’s a question of after the film is done, how you can show it. If the whole Manila, the whole Philippines had digital projection, then…

AB: It’s okay.

AT: It’s only a matter of the audience? If they all had digital projection, then you wouldn’t want to shoot on 35 anymore?

AB: No. I still want film, I just don’t have the money that’s why it’s on DV.

AT: But if the whole Philippines had digital projection, then do you still want to shoot on 35?

AB: That’s probably a different story. Because your question’s tricky man. If all theaters had digital projection, that means there won’t be film projection.

AT: If they have both?

AB: Still film. Film has been tested for a 100 years, it’s tough. Storage, the quality, in-depth, the color. Film is more flexible, but of course I would like to edit it in non-linear, in Avid. Still film. I’m not a purist when it comes to editing. I still love the medium of film. It’s just too elitist until now. It’s too expensive. But for me to think twice that no, it has to be film…

AT: As long as you can finish it.

AB: For me, there’s no conflict. For other filmmakers there’s an issue with film and DV; for me there isn’t.

AT: I think that if you’re gonna shoot, you have to approach it differently—if you’re going to be shooting on DV or shooting on film. It affects…

AB: No, I don’t think so. For me, I still use the film discipline, how you would shoot on 35. The only difference is that you don’t need to do a reading, but we made it a point--Odyssey Flores and I—that we have the same discipline as with shooting on 35. For example, I only used 10 DV’s [miniDV tapes] for the whole film. I don’t do more than five takes. Most of the heavier scenes only took one take. All of those are one take. Three takes is a lot for me. In decision-making, as I stated earlier, I’ve decided already; it’s preparation. Take Hitchcock, didn’t he say that if only he wouldn’t shoot because it was finished in the office? The storyboard’s been done, it’s done in the office. Hitchcock is about technique. For me, it’s not like that. That’s Hitchcock, he has the money. For me, it’s discipline man. It's not that because you’re using DV, you can shoot, you can just buy more since it’s cheap.

AT: But if not in the process of shooting in the same film, it’s the effect of the visual on the audience. Just like what you said the depth of field of film, the feel for the audience. For example, it’s more realistic shooting on DV compared to film.

AB: I still wouldn’t. Because you can adjust the lighting to make film look grittier. You grade it colder or shinier to make it look glossy. It’s the same. The only difference is the quality, film is still different. For the filmmaker like me who doesn’t have the money, I’d go for DV. For other people, there’s material for DV and there’s material for film. It isn’t like that for me. It’s like saying I’ll shoot you on digital, your face is for a digital camera or your composition is for a digital camera, this one is for film. It’s not like that, it’s a story. It only changes because of the times; you work with what you have. Film used to run at 15 frames per second, but why did they make it 24 when they could have made it 30? From 8mm it became 16mm, then they came out with 35, after 35, there was 75. Erwin and I were talking about how there's some material that’s good for DV and there’s material that’s good for film. I don’t understand that, but I get his point. 35, that’s the dream of everyone, man. His article made me glad because there were some comments about the explosion of DV, of digital, there’s so much trash. From what I understand, what he’s saying is, it’s not as if there were good films when everyone was using celluloid.

AT: What Erwin said is also right.

AB: I was saying that what’s happening now is like what happened in the early 90s, 1991, 92. When the Eraserheads [a popular Filipino band in the early 90s. -ed] came in, fuck it, bang! Everyone was in a band, there were so many bands. The time will come that they’re the only ones left behind, who’s real. It’s become part of pop culture already.

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